24.02.2008

VanceS contributed 194 messages, 15 emotes during 132 minutes. 2008.02.24 04:06:52 Login Room: VirtualVance VanceS joined the room. VanceS left the room. Room: TI_Reception VanceS joined the room. VanceS sidles in ClaireB: hi vance MichaelAC joined the room. VanceS: hey everyone ClaireB: hi michael MichaelAC: Greetings folks MichaelAC: how are things? VanceS: took the words right outta my mouth MichaelAC: I'm hear to distract me from real work ;) VanceS: I know the feeling MichaelAC: er here VanceS: however I have many alternative distractions MichaelAC: such as? VanceS: I took a car trip to al ain yesterday VanceS: you both know the place ClaireB: yes VanceS: 2 hours each wa VanceS: way VanceS: and on the trip, Bobbi driving VanceS: I read and critiqued 4 papers VanceS: which I have been putting off, I realize now ClaireB: i liked al ain MichaelAC: v efficient multitasking VanceS: because I'm always on the Internet VanceS: twitter, several email accts VanceS: etc etc VanceS: get me away from the internet MichaelAC: know the pattern well VanceS: and I can critique 4 papers, no problem MichaelAC: is there any chance of that V? getting you off the Internet ClaireB: no way MichaelAC: I guess when you're diving ClaireB: i can remember when vance used to rely on telex for communication VanceS: yeah, one reason i look forward to diving VanceS: haha, yeah MichaelAC: V must be realy old then VanceS: back in the old days, used to spend days camping at the beach MichaelAC: and you too Clairre if you can rememnber ClaireB: watch it there; he's not as old as i am MichaelAC smiles VanceS: michael on the other hand is a young whippersnapper MichaelAC: camping...I remember that MichaelAC: indeed - a mere 53 ClaireB: and someone sent him a telex (maybe me), and at his university they put it in a drawer and didn't give it to him for months (or weeks) VanceS: did we go camping with you michael? MichaelAC: no Vance VanceS: we kind of bar hopped as I recall VanceS: precursor to bar camp MichaelAC: But - I do remember telegrams? What were telexes anyway? ClaireB: it would not surprise me to hear that the 2 of you bar hopped VanceS: telexes, kind of telegraphs with a graphic user interface ClaireB: what was gui about it? I just remember text VanceS: telegraphing all those newsletter, why, that was tuff, back in my day ... MichaelAC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraphy#Telex VanceS: well relatively gui, considering telegraph was just dots and dashes VanceS: this one actually had the letters formed in their graphic representations MichaelAC: this one looks v old - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Telex.jpg/333px-Telex.jpg VanceS: amazing stuff ClaireB: when i lived in indonesia, i would write out something by hand and give it to someone in the hotel and they would type it into the telex machine VanceS: I remember when fax came out, I was in Oman ClaireB: yeah, i was in jakarta. fax was like a major breakthrough VanceS: I used an article on this device that would send images in some materials I prepared for one of my classes MichaelAC: no more typing - you could just send the copy VanceS: but of course I didn't believe it, must be some catch ClaireB: yeah -- we used to send tests back and forth from jakarta to the US VanceS: how could they do that? MichaelAC: and now look what we're doing! VanceS: yeah, back to text MichaelAC: we could run a test right here and now VanceS: sad isn't it VanceS :-) VanceS: a test of what? ClaireB: yeah, but i think we continue to use ti becuase it is reliable VanceS: actually I like that, reliability is good MichaelAC: Any kin d of test - you could do it right here live. You sorted UK and TESOL yet Vance MichaelAC: f2f or live? VanceS: on twitter these days, keep getting notices about Ustream, so I join those, talk about distractions VanceS: TESOL, I think I might be able to d that VanceS: looking favorable ClaireB: my call students absolutely hate twitter MichaelAC: good! MichaelAC: why Claire? VanceS: why is that Claire (I think I recall your tweet about it) VanceS: one of my studetns hates wikis ClaireB: i think that they don't see the point of it since they don't really have a community to twitter with MichaelAC: that makes sense VanceS: it's a good illustration of how you build community ClaireB: but a lot of people hate twitter until they use it a lot MichaelAC: yeh - you build it with Twitter VanceS: if your community is full of people who say things like 'just finished brushing teeth' then yeah ClaireB: i now have met some really cool people on twitter (mostly lab directors) that i will get to meet f2f when i to calico MichaelAC: not liking wikis I can understand - takes a while to get the hang of them VanceS: Twitter is essentially SMS text messaging on computer VanceS: the network is key ClaireB: i don't spend that much time on twitter, but i get at least one good piece of info there per day ClaireB: and it's not about brushing teeth, lol VanceS: if you have a community of SMS'ers then that's your twitter MichaelAC: that's about the same for me Clair ClaireB: no, i don't think it's like sms because it isnt' directed just to one person VanceS: I enjoy getting up in the a.m and checking twits over coffee ClaireB: i confess to loving twitter VanceS: I get about 4 good urls up MichaelAC: tho I've been letting it slip a little of late - might go days without ntweeting' VanceS: I tag some in del.icio.us ClaireB: yeah, michael we miss you MichaelAC smiles VanceS: it's excellent, easier than following rss feeds ClaireB: vance, you don't twit much but i figure it is because of lack of access VanceS: that's it clair VanceS: claire ClaireB: yeah, remember that e VanceS: I pownce sometimes, can do that from the office MichaelAC: wouldn't wanna bring down the fabric of UAE ClaireB: i like it because (unlike this chat) i can go away and come back and it's there ClaireB: for a little while at least MichaelAC: yeh - like slow chat! VanceS pownces ClaireB: vance is singlehandly responsible for bringing down the fabric VanceS: my last pownce tweet is from Feb 15 VanceS: not much netowrk there yet ClaireB: i have a pownce accnt but haven't used it much MichaelAC: and when they discover who;s done it they'll eject him VanceS: haha ClaireB: yeah, and there goes his cushy lifestyle MichaelAC: LOL ClaireB: yeah, the synergy seems to be on twitter VanceS: that's really weird about UAE blocking twitter VanceS: I can't imagine why MichaelAC: it is odd MichaelAC: lots of energy spent on something so minor VanceS: and they block flickr but let in all these other things VanceS: like blocking twitter but pownce is ok VanceS: kind of a token block VanceS: they also block ning MichaelAC: I mean - no bandwidth issues, sleazy media ClaireB: probably lack of understanding VanceS: definitely a lack of understanding ClaireB: when i lived in indonesia, there wasn't much rhyme or reason as to what was blocked VanceS: or an illustration of how blockage in one lobe of the brain leads to blockage in another sphere ClaireB: except that they didn't like barechested ladies MichaelAC: Is RickRo real? ClaireB: well a lot of people have stopped using ning because of the porn ClaireB: indeed rick is real VanceS: I was surprised in Hurghada Egypt to see mermaid statues with uncovered ladies MichaelAC: Ok - hi Rick! VanceS: I didnt' realize that porn was a problem on ning MichaelAC: So more a problem, there than MySpace and FB? VanceS: we have facebook here, very popular with students, and I've never seen porn on it VanceS: never encountered it in SL either MichaelAC: nor me MichaelAC: I've seen it SL MichaelAC: I got lost there once and came across a 'party' VanceS . o O ( oohh MC, where/?? ) MichaelAC: Wouldn't knwo how to get bacj there Vance - sorry! VanceS calms down ... "gee Michael, you must have been shocked MichaelAC: Nah - I'd heard aboput it so was prepared MichaelAC smiles ClaireB: someone posted a url on twitter of a rather salacious ning site VanceS grins at MC MichaelAC: A friend of mine kinda got raped in SL ClaireB: then said that he had decided to stop using it with middle school kids ClaireB: raped??? MichaelAC: yeh - stripped and put on a bed MichaelAC: if you knwo how ytou can do it ClaireB: couldnt he (or she) escape? MichaelAC: with scripts apparently MichaelAC: yeh - she did. I guess raped is a bit strong MichaelAC: but certain;y suddenly naked on a bed VanceS: there is a bit of emulation in virtual worlds of real ones MichaelAC: precise! ClaireB: well, on one hand that sounds fairly sick, but on the other hand, isn't that a lot better than doing it in real life? VanceS: what do you do? exit? ClaireB: i say give the sickos and island and let them do whatever they like MichaelAC: yeh - if you're gonna do bad things, do them in SL ClaireB: although the counter argument is that a sicko island might encourage people to do stuff in real life VanceS: I would imagine LInden labs would want to investigate that MichaelAC: I guess so Vance. I will ask my friend - good to know what to do in such situations ClaireB: like the argument that violence on tv inspires violence in real life VanceS: I found YD stuck somewhere once, the solution was to teleport him out MichaelAC: there's always a connection IMHO ClaireB: the first time i ever did a live chat (in the 80's) someone said to me "can I talk dirty?" i was so scared that i forgot how to exit the chat room, and i turned off the computer! VanceS: there was an interesting event on at 1 am gmt the other day in SL MichaelAC: LOL MichaelAC: @ Claire MichaelAC: what was it Vance? VanceS laughs too VanceS: happened at the same time as your thing MichaelAC: aha - I remember VanceS: I went to MC's event on my laptop and SL on my pC VanceS: I had voices coming from both, really hard to focus on either MichaelAC: I'm still just skirting/flirting with SL VanceS: the SL event was a WAOE gig ClaireB: what is waoe? VanceS: a tour of AVGI Island VanceS: Steve McCarty's group MichaelAC: Steve McCarty's mob MichaelAC: snap MichaelAC: You write it Vance - you're quicker thamn me MichaelAC smiles MichaelAC waiting for V..... MichaelAC: World MichaelAC: Association MichaelAC: Online MichaelAC: Education? VanceS: Evangalists? VanceS: good VanceS: well done VanceS: I didnt' know MichaelAC: see a test!! ClaireB: this is a group in sl? MichaelAC: Next test q: what do the letters USB stand for? VanceS: in RL, a big group, very professional VanceS: up VanceS: someone's VanceS: ??? MichaelAC: LOL VanceS . o O ( sorry couldn't resist ) MichaelAC: ROFL VanceS: hope claire doesn't turn off her computer MichaelAC: great - haven't heard that before MichaelAC: LOL ClaireB: nah MichaelAC: you coping Calire? ClaireB: ah yes :-) MichaelAC: If you need to talk..... ClaireB: but this is different; i know you guys MichaelAC: Anyway - v fails the test ClaireB: that jerk on compuserve was someone i had just 'met" and he asked if we could go into a private channel ClaireB: different situation DennisOl joined the room. ClaireB: hi dennis ClaireB hugs dennis MichaelAC: Greetings Dennis VanceS: universal S ... bus? DennisOl: Hi, Claire and Michael and Rick and Vance. MichaelAC: serial? ClaireB: rick does not seem to be among us VanceS: Hi dennis, naw, usb is not serial DennisOl hugs Claire right back. MichaelAC: Universal serial bus - whatever that is -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb ClaireB: dennis, you have to save me. vance and michael are talking dirty VanceS: maybe we should run a script on him and see MichaelAC: a very odd bus ClaireB: highly inappropriate DennisOl: Claire: LOL! MichaelAC: no - Vance is talking dirty VanceS meant on Rick VanceS: no, you're THINKING dirty ClaireB: ah michael, but you were talking about rape and such VanceS: what did I say? MichaelAC laughs ClaireB assures dennis that this is all a joke MichaelAC: So got any clean topics Dennis? :) DennisOl: What about disk scrubbers? MichaelAC: ;) DennisOl D VanceS assures all present that Vance's thoughts are as pure as his pristine language DennisOl chuckles MichaelAC: recycle bins ClaireB: vance, how boring MichaelAC: yeh Vance - you need to get out more MichaelAC: get off the Internet ClaireB: oh i'd say vance gets around MichaelAC: just in jets and airports and conference halls VanceS: Michael is the jet setter MichaelAC: I mean - how about mixing it with the little people ClaireB: well at our age, jets and airports and conference halls are excitement enough MichaelAC laughs DennisOl: Dwarves? Elves? Minihune? MichaelAC: leprechauns ClaireB: i'm in the process of booking trip to japan for next summer DennisOl: For the CALL conference? ClaireB: yeah DennisOl: Sounds wonderful. ClaireB: fare is much cheaper if i get it now MichaelAC: brb RickRo left the room (signed off). DennisOl: I wonder when they'll announce the scholarship winners. ClaireB: it should be fairly soon; i'm an ex-officio member of that committee VanceS: I wonder when proposal notifications will go out ClaireB: very very soon DennisOl: Yes, I also wonder about that. ClaireB: we are waiting for the japanese to figure out number of slots MichaelAC: back again VanceS has his fingers crossed VanceS: oh, I was going to mention VanceS: speaking of tweets MichaelAC: yes? VanceS: that someone put out this am. that they were listening to an interview with Jokay Wollongong VanceS: of Jokaydia in SL MichaelAC: Know her well VanceS: and so I tuned in, SL Cable Network VanceS: kind of a talk show format VanceS: well done VanceS: and she mentions Bee and Webheads MichaelAC: good MichaelAC: Excellent VanceS: so I thought that was cool MichaelAC: Jo's great ClaireB: very cool VanceS: how do you know her? DennisOl: Yes indeed. MichaelAC: almost lives in SL MichaelAC: She's a buddy of Alex and Leigh and co MichaelAC: TALO people MichaelAC: and she came to FLNW1 ClaireB: yes i have seen here in sl DennisOl: Who is she in real life? MichaelAC: Jo Kay DennisOl: Ah, yes. MichaelAC: hence jokaydia DennisOl: Yep. VanceS: what does she do in Real LIfe? MichaelAC: teaches about SL; makes avatars and props and scripts too I think ClaireB: that's her job? VanceS: so she doesn't really have a Real Life ... MichaelAC: pretty much. But also a realworld trainer of same RickRo joined the room. MichaelAC: so she has a real life. Recently went to Scotland to prove it DennisOl: WB, Rick. ClaireB: does anyone in academia have a real life?? RickRo: Hey, y'all VanceS: I guess you know when your start bumping into walls and move your fingers funny when you talk to people ClaireB: wb rick -- you were here but you were not here MichaelAC: so to speak RickRo: I kept checking in but was the only one at home.... RickRo: What's "WB"? VanceS: hi rick, we been here about 45 min ClaireB: welcome back RickRo: funny... VanceS: we hid your avatar when you were gone\ VanceS: trying to remember what we did with it RickRo: I wondered why I was feeling funny.... MichaelAC smiles RickRo: like I lost my head, and my body.... MichaelAC: u don't need that stuff on the Net Rick VanceS: you must have been to Baalbak RickRo: nods RickRo: limethe, Baalbak? ClaireB: is that in jordan? RickRo: I actually ran from the Dead to the Red this weekend.... VanceS: no, in Lebanon RickRo: nods VanceS: cool RickRo: 252K! ClaireB: wow RickRo: 242, actually VanceS: as in two hundred and forty two?? RickRo: in a team of 10--yep 242 big ones. We came in 3rd too DennisOl: Baalbak: DennisOl: http://almashriq.hiof.no/lebanon/900/910/919/baalbek/ VanceS: cool DennisOl: Amazing, Rick! ClaireB: like a relay team? VanceS: 24 km each MichaelAC: what are 24 k each? RickRo: It was a relay, ran through the night. We had 5 women; 5 guys, students, teachers, miliary types, NGO folk MichaelAC: aha RickRo: It was a bit more than 24 apiece, but very difficult as you had to run a set between a k and 100meters over and over and over. It's much easier to run it all at once. RickRo: I was the oldest of the group.... VanceS: you had to run every ten minutes?? RickRo: we came in third by 5 seconds, missed 2nd by two minutes. THis after running for 18 hours. DennisOl: Wow! VanceS: no that would be every hour or so MichaelAC: I'm gonna exit now folks - I need an early night - and all this talk about running is making me tired :) RickRo: It varied. Sometimes we had 40 minutes break, sometimes only 5 or 10. Complicated.... MichaelAC: Nice chatting as ever RickRo: see you! DennisOl: Good to see you here, Michael. Take care. MichaelAC: Have a good week everyone VanceS: cya michael MichaelAC left the room (signed off). VanceS just completed his weekend VanceS: oh, a good week, I was thinking 'weekend' DennisOl: It smells like my coffee is ready, so I think I'll sign off and enjoy a cup. VanceS: the EVO crowd starts selebrating shortly DennisOl: Have a terrific week, everyone. ClaireB: so you like coffee more than us, dennis? ClaireB: celebrating where? VanceS: when is the first one, do you know Dennis? VanceS: worldbridges, WiZiQ ... ClaireB: ah DennisOl: I don't know, Vance. No, I don't Claire. I just want to enjoy a cup. It's early here. VanceS: don't mean to keep you Dennis DennisOl: But I'll find out before I leave. ClaireB: just kidding, dennis VanceS: probably see you later on, a lot going on VanceS: can check worldbridges VanceS: not mentioned there VanceS: not at http://webheadsinaction.org/ ClaireB: so what plans do you guys have for tesol? VanceS: listenining to the voicethreads there DennisOl: I haven't been able to find info on the EVO schedule for today. I'll keep looking. VanceS: I'll have to check evo mail VanceS: getting data timeouts VanceS: Worldbridges with Jeff Lebow on Sunday, Feb 24 at VanceS: 17:00 GMT. Party time!!! VanceS: http://webheadsinaction.org/ ClaireB: yes, the voicethread is nice ThomasLev joined the room. VanceS: hey thomas ThomasLev: hello! VanceS: Dennis went to get a cup of coffee VanceS: Rick has been merging in and out of disembodiment ThomasLev: is everyone at wiziq or something? VanceS: Claire is talking trip to Japan with her travel agent ThomasLev: aha ClaireB: hi thom ThomasLev: we're looking at more snow ThomasLev: on top of ice, on top of more ice ClaireB: ugh VanceS: I was just looking up the EVO closing sessions ThomasLev: hi Claire ClaireB: i'm tired of snow ClaireB: but going to california soon to escape RickRo: Hey, I've come back to me bod ThomasLev: where are the EVO sessions? VanceS: Worldbridges with Jeff Lebow on Sunday, Feb 24 at VanceS: 17:00 GMT. Party time!!! VanceS: http://webheadsinaction.org/ RickRo: The EVO is closing already? VanceS: it was really good this time ThomasLev: What's in California, Claire? VanceS: that's all the announcements I can find for the last couple of days so I guss that's it, 17:00 tonight ClaireB: calico symposium ClaireB: also, a chance to see my son DennisOl: The session begins at 1600 GMT. I think it's at the Webcast Academy. NinaTL joined the room. ClaireB: hi nina ClaireB hugs nina RickRo: Hey Nina! NinaTL hugs everyone DennisOl: Nina will know. ThomasLev: Hi Nina! NinaTL: Sorry I am late DennisOl: And on that note, I'm going to enjoy my cup of coffee. I may be back. NinaTL: I was looking at the BaW08 graduation page :-) NinaTL: Dennis, will you be at graduation later? VanceS: some announcements have it at 17:00 NinaTL: I think it's at 1600 VanceS: I can check then NinaTL: vance you will be shocked to know that I am proofreading my paper, which I wrote up on friday VanceS: wow NinaTL: If all seems okay, I will send it to you VanceS: ok send it NinaTL: I hope it is OK--it's in Word, as you said VanceS: that's fine VanceS: WiAOC proceeds (the topic) NinaTL: I blush to confess that I did have Elizabeth's email with Anne's paper, which she sent me as a model and which I said I had not received NinaTL: OK VanceS: oh that easily happens NinaTL: That paper helped me formet the references, I hope it's okay NinaTL: You can let me know NinaTL: I discovered that Engrade has completely changed its look NinaTL: I am not using it this semester because I am trying out Blackboard, which has the advantage of being backed up by UM and is also UM's official coruse management tool MoiraH joined the room. NinaTL: so I had to get all new screenshots anyway! MoiraH: Hello all NinaTL: Hi Moi! RickRo: Hey! NinaTL kisses Moira on both cheeks MoiraH feels them ClaireB: hi moira ClaireB hugs moira ThomasLev: Hi Moira! MoiraH and the hugs :-) MoiraH: How are you all? VanceS lets Moira imagine my form of greeting MoiraH thinking, imagining ... MoiraH: Hi Dennis VanceS: I think dennis is drinking coffee VanceS: How is France today? MoiraH: good idea RickRo: I'll see y'all later. I'm bonking out here... (runners' term) MoiraH: sunny, blue sky NinaTL: Happy bonking RickRo: {:-{>} NinaTL: I just returned from California (took at overnight flight which landed 3 hours ago) VanceS: it's an ambiguous term, but I'll assume no puns NinaTL :-) VanceS: what were you doing in California? RickRo: once be careful to whom and when one admists to bonking.... MoiraH: lol NinaTL: Well, my aunt Leah died on Dec 2 and her daughters hosted a memorial gathering VanceS: Curt Bonk is the expert on bonking puns DennisOl: Hi again, everyone. RickRo: funny! NinaTL: It was really lovely and I got to see some of my favorite cousins NinaTL: and my sister, who lives here but whom I rarely see MoiraH hugs SS Dennis NinaTL: We shared a room Friday night VanceS: sorry about the occasion, but sounds like it was a nice reunion DennisOl hugs Moira back NinaTL: It was very nice, thanks RickRo: waves and heads off to bonk out ClaireB: that is nice, nina ClaireB: bye rick NinaTL: My aunt was 98 and lived an extraordinarily full life DennisOl: Take care, Rick. RickRo left the room (signed off). NinaTL: Bye Rick NinaTL: She had the gift of making every single person she knew feel special MoiraH: that is a gift :-) DennisOl: Yes, a great gift. NinaTL: She changed my life completely NinaTL: It is due to her I became an ESL teacher, and that is how I met my husband! ThomasLev: wow VanceS: how did she encourage you to be an esl teacher? VanceS: both my sons have taken up this profession, btw DennisOl: Amazing, Vance. ClaireB: you're such a good influence, vance ThomasLev: I advise mine against it VanceS: either that or unable to instill imagination regarding alternative career opps VanceS: it would be hard to pursue this in the USA perhaps, it's not a bad field for an expat ClaireB: not bad at all VanceS: how do you advise them Tom? DennisOl: It's definitely hard in the U.S. VanceS . o O ( and Nina has not answered my question ) ThomasLev: I work from the assumption that they would want to end up here (US) though that might not be true NinaTL: Sorry I was elsewhere NinaTL: She didn't exaclt encourage me but when I was 17 she & my uncle sponsored my first trip to France ThomasLev: One just came back from France & likes the whole second language learning/teaching experience NinaTL: As a result of that, I returned several times and then studied there my senior year in college--and then, still not ready to come back, I got my first EFL job NinaTL: I taught in France for 2 years and then returned home VanceS: similar to my experience, and uncle who lived overseas drew me there for a long visit and 2year trip MoiraH: I know lots of Americans andCandadians here in France who first came to try teaching and have never gone back home since MoiraH: except for holidays, of course ThomasLev left the room (signed off). NinaTL: Then I started teaching here, and the rest is hisotyr MoiraH: Dennis was asking about the graduation party and the EVO Grad Party with Jeff is at webheadsinaction.org at 17.00 GMT today ThomasLev joined the room. NinaTL: I have always felt that that first summer in Rouen set me on my career path MoiraH: I believe Daf is having one before too for BaW08 but I'm not sure about that NinaTL: Moira, Dafe posted 1600 on 20 Feb DennisOl: A lot of people are disappointed when they return to the U.S. after teaching EFL abroad. NinaTL: Which is it? NinaTL: Maybe one is BaW and one is EVO? ThomasLev: sorry my wife came by and checked the weather ClaireB: disappointed how, dennis? MoiraH: That might be for the Ba08 Nina MoiraH: the one at 17.00 is for all 13 sessions, that I know NinaTL: Okay, the BaW party is at 1600 MoiraH: great, thanks Nina WimongM joined the room. DennisOl: They expect to be able to find ESL jobs here and are disappointed when they learn that they are difficult to find and (especially at the adult level) very competitive. MoiraH: Hello WimongM DennisOl: Hi, WimongM. ClaireB: hi wimongm ClaireB: why is baw having a party? is it graduation? MoiraH: It's a very 'closed shop' in France and once people get the good jobs, they hang on to them for dear life MoiraH: Yes Claire and then after that, it's party time for all the sessions DennisOl: (Claire) And many people returning from EFL jobs abroad don't realize that they will need teaching certification for public school jobs OR a Master's in TESL or a closely related field. MoiraH: Here in France, you can't teach at university level without a masters DennisOl: Even Cambridge certs are not accepted here. NinaTL: I have been very lucky to find a secure full-time position in 1981 and stay there DennisOl: I was lucky, too, Nina. NinaTL: Back in 1976 I saw the writing on the wall and went back for my master's DennisOl: I've had several ESL jobs here. WimongM left the room. NinaTL: Without it my story would have been very different MoiraH: the language schools accept everybody and there are many in France. One of the worst and the one which advertises everywhere is Wall Street DennisOl: Low pay? No job security? No benefits? MoiraH: my son, who is in the UK now, says that Wall Street language school is in to heavy marketing there too now WimongM joined the room. ThomasLev: welcome back, Wimong DennisOl: Yes, welcome back! NinaTL: Wimong is a new member of Tapped In today DennisOl: So what's the story on the Wall Street schools, Moira? NinaTL: Perhaps he/she is unfamiliar with how it works WimongM: First time to loadong,just have a look and learn. ThomasLev: it's snowing big huge globs of snow here in IL- covering up all the ice MoiraH: heavy marketing, low paid and poorly qualified teachers and a terrific turnover of personnel DennisOl: WimongM: The format is free here. There is no set topic. We mention items and react to them. DennisOl: Sounds familiar, Moira! There are lots of chain schools like that. MoiraH: I would say normal story of many language schools in many countries DennisOl: Yes, definitely. ThomasLev: with a name "Wall Street" you'd expect business orientation ThomasLev: or shady insider tactics mayybe MoiraH: gives us all a bad reputation - boo hoo MoiraH: as language professionals DennisOl: It used to be the case that a huge number of teaching-abroad positions were filled by folks who were simply native speakers of English--and often young and "cute." DennisOl: Some of them turned into quite good EFL teachers. Many turned into "experts" who actually had little professional preparation. MoiraH: still is I think Dennis NinaTL: That's me! DennisOl: I suspected so, Moira. NinaTL: I was young, if not cute MoiraH: I'm sure you were as you are Nina :-) NinaTL: I started out totally clueless and learned (I hope) fast ClaireB: i taught esl/efl for 17 years before i had an esl methods course NinaTL: I don't think I ever took one, Claire! LauraGst1 joined the room. DennisOl: There's a lot to be said for being young (and "cute," too, I suppose), if the eagerness of youth leads to serious consideration of what TESL is all about. MoiraH: the naturals will always find better positions once they've 'learnt the ropes' DennisOl: Hi, Laura. NinaTL: Although I did take several ESL courses when I got my master's, which is not in ESL but in Applied Linguistics DennisOl: I agree, Moira. MoiraH: Hi Laura DennisOl: I think Applied Linguistics was probably a much better preparation than ESL, Nina. NinaTL: I think that must depend on the program, Dennis ClaireB: hi laura MoiraH: I agree Nina DennisOl: Yes, you're right, Nina. WimongM: I agree NinaTL: My program at Georgetown was pretty good, I think. I have applied what I learned in almost every class to my teaching in one way or another DennisOl: My MA was in EFL, but I had a lot of extra coursework--primarily in phonology and dialectology. NinaTL: Only transformational grammar was never applicable to anything! DennisOl: I think transformational grammar actually helped me. ThomasLev: I have a question about that ThomasLev: Do you believe that we actually transform things, i.e. move wh- words etc. when we make a question? DennisOl: I think it helped me realize that syntax isn't all "surface structure" rules. MoiraH listening to Tom ClaireB: who knows what dark processes are going on in the brain?? NinaTL: Okay guys, I have some things to do before the parties NinaTL: I hope to see you all later MoiraH: putting your best frock on Nina? VanceS: I was a fan of TG too VanceS: and read the first few of chomsky's books NinaTL: I can go in my pyjamas, Moi, as I still have no webcam :-) MoiraH: lol NinaTL: You will never know DennisOl: I think what it helped me realize was that the final output--whether grammar, phonology, vocabulary--was influenced by many "selectional characteristics." VanceS: through I like his later stuff MUCH better BeyzaY joined the room. NinaTL: See you later! NinaTL left the room (signed off). MoiraH: Hi Beyza DennisOl: Merhaba, Beyza! BeyzaY: hi all VanceS: Hey Beyza BeyzaY: merhaba Dennis BeyzaY: I guess I'm late ClaireB: hi beyza DennisOl: Better late than never! BeyzaY: how re u all? BeyzaY: u re right Dennis ClaireB: we are fine VanceS: a little late for me WimongM: Hi Bey VanceS: i need to go shortly\ DennisOl: I'm OK. ThomasLev: I guess my question is, when we teach questions, are we teaching "movement" rules or "placement" rules? LauraGst1 left the room (signed off). ClaireB: vance, you ar getting old if you think that this is late ThomasLev: either way students don't learn them very well DennisOl: Could you clarify the difference, Tom? BeyzaY: movement rules? MoiraH: placemet then movement, I would say MoiraH: and not spelling ;-) typo again ThomasLev: Placement- you put a Wh- first, then an aux, etc. VanceS: by late I mean it's late at the office BeyzaY: Ijust couldnt make the term clear in my mind sorry VanceS: and I've just packed away my laptop BeyzaY: hmm DennisOl: Understood, Tom. ThomasLev: Movement-- you start out with this, then you move this to the front DennisOl: Neither one makes question formation a really easy matter. BeyzaY: it depends on your learrners DennisOl: Especially when you consider the whole gamut of question types. BeyzaY: some of them really love formulas DennisOl: simple, Wh-, negative, tag, statement as question . . . . ClaireB: i have to go now; bye everyone BeyzaY: cya claire DennisOl: Then there is the great leap of faith: the "empty" auxiliary DO. VanceS: what you are talking about? (normal question formation here) ThomasLev: cu Claire! DennisOl: Take care, Claire. ClaireB left the room (signed off). MoiraH: I always find that learners really enjoy understanding and then using tag questions, as most do not learn this before going to university (strange I know) DennisOl: I agree, Moira. WimongM: I agree DennisOl: It's just too bad that tag questions are so complicated. VanceS: one of the WiAOC proceeds articles deals with tag questions over bBC DennisOl: Interesting! MoiraH: I try to apply it to maths sometimes - start with a positive, end with a negative :-) DennisOl: I'll have to be sure to read that. MoiraH: to simplify the basics DennisOl: That's a good approach, Moira. BeyzaY: yes definitely MoiraH: it seems to 'stick' with them better DennisOl: And it's always a good idea to teach "generic" tags. (You know what I mean, right? You don't know what I mean, right?) MoiraH: yes VanceS: like, 'innit? VanceS: you know what I mean, innit? DennisOl: Yep. Like "innit?" DennisOl: Though that seems not to be very common in the U.S. VanceS: it innit? innit? BeyzaY: I definitely think lower levels are more difficult groups to teach DennisOl: Right, Vance. DennisOl: I've heard "isn't it?" used as a generic tag in Indian English. BeyzaY: wauw MoiraH: Well, I have to admit that I don't use 'innit' but get that from recordings/films, etc DennisOl: "He speaks English, isn't it?" WimongM: My students always to memerize the rules of tag questions.Is it a good idear? VanceS: it's not common, only to a small area of england MoiraH: true Vance DennisOl: Interesting. MoiraH: like dun'it MoiraH: for doesn't it BeyzaY: I wonder how you teach lower level of sts who dont use latin alphabet VanceS: that's something to eat with a hole in it, innit? DennisOl: I think it's a good idea if they can "see the big picture," WinmongM. MoiraH: lol BeyzaY: Arabic,chinese and japanese BeyzaY: because I've never taught English to that kind of learners ThomasLev: these days there are few people with no exposure to the alphabet DennisOl: I have, Beyza. Most of the time, they already knew the Latin alphabet. ThomasLev: but there are some! ThomasLev: it's harder when they have no exposure to ANY alphabet DennisOl: Oh, for sure! BeyzaY: omg BeyzaY: yes that 's a more diffcult situation WimongM: My students learn English ,beginning with the aiphaber LeannRM joined the room. DennisOl: I've had a few students like that. It wasn't too difficult to work with them. The problem was that they were usually in classes where everyone else already knew the alphabet. WimongM: Is common in China ThomasLev: Here, the lowest levels cover a huge wide range of abilities DennisOl: But the students like that that I had were usually very good in listening and speaking, so things tended to balance out. ThomasLev: a true beginner will get discouraged from being in the bottom level for several terms DennisOl: For sure, Tom! BeyzaY: it's very challenging MoiraH: WImong, I revise the alphabet with uiniversity learners because they have forgotten it so are unable to cope with a real life telephone enquiry, for example. Numbers is also something which really needs to be revised to express time, dates, weights, measures, etc DennisOl: Moira: By "revise" do you mean 'review'? BeyzaY: u re right moira in every elementary book th first unit starts with alphabet DennisOl: (I know "revise" has both these meanings in British English, but it doesn't in American English.) DennisOl: I always get momentarily confused when I see "revise" used this way.) MoiraH: yes, revise and review and for some, totally relearn! They know how to analyse texts but have completely forgotten the basics ThomasLev: Moira is changing and rewriting it VanceS: must head out DennisOl: Take care, Vance. All the best to Bobbi! MoiraH: see you later Vance :-) BeyzaY: bye VAnce cya soon ThomasLev -) VanceS: she's at the dentist but said to say hi to dennis DennisOl -) ThomasLev: I have a couple letters you can add next time you work on it....:-) DennisOl smiles ThomasLev: A couple of numbers I'd just as soon you leave out DennisOl: Which numbers, Tom? MoiraH listening to Tom VanceS: Is Leanne here? MoiraH: no DennisOl: And which letters? MoiraH: oh YES!!! Hello LEANNE LeannRM: I'm here. What's the conversation about this morning? VanceS: Hi Leanne, whre are you this morning? DennisOl: Leanne! Abrazos grandes! Que placer verte a ti! LeannRM: I am in central Minnesota. MoiraH: Tom is going to tell us about letters and numbers to be added or left out BeyzaY: hi Leanne VanceS: headng home? WimongM: Glad to meet you,Here is 22:14 in China ,I want a sleep,good bye . DennisOl: Oops. I think maybe this is a different Leanne. LeannRM: I have just signed up for the first time and logged in to see what this was all about . . . at my professor's request. DennisOl: Sleep well, Wimong. It was wonderful to meet you! MoiraH: Glad to meet you Wimong MoiraH: Hope to see you here again :-) VanceS: thank you for joining us Wimong WimongM left the room (signed off). ThomasLev: Sorry called away for a minute VanceS: a confusion of Leanns I think VanceS: but welcome LeannRM: I believe you are correct . . . a different LeAnn. MoiraH thinks Vance is right DennisOl: Leanne: There's another Leanne who used to be here frequently. She's in the Yucatan now, and I thought you were she. VanceS: there is another Leanne who is traveling south of the border DennisOl: Sorry. But welcome! LeannRM: Thank you. What's the topic of discussion this morning? VanceS: he last name is McKenzie, so more confusion from LeannRM VanceS: we are webheads and we talk about whatever comes up DennisOl: The discussion topics are always kind of free-ranging here. JeffDL joined the room. DennisOl: Hi, Jeff. LeannRM: Okay. I'll see if I can follow along. VanceS: we are regrouping in two hours at http://webheadsinaction.org JeffDL left the room. MoiraH: Hi Jeff VanceS: and I have to go home for that BeyzaY: Ji Jeff MoiraH: Yes, I'm going to head out too and recharge batteries for the meets later today BeyzaY: ji=hi BeyzaY )) BeyzaY: cya soon Moira MoiraH: See you all later I hope :-))) DennisOl: Take care, Moira. MoiraH hugs all MoiraH: à plus BeyzaY: moira do u use msn? BeyzaY: or ym? DennisOl hugs Moira back VanceS: yeah, I'm gone LeannRM left the room (signed off). DennisOl: Take care, Vance. VanceS: head home, restart there BeyzaY: take care VanceS lays finger aside nose VanceS left the room (signed off). 2008.02.24 06:19:32 Signoff